Lt. Governor Forums Yesterday
There were not one but two Lt. Governor forums/debates in Little Rock yesterday. The fact is I was not at either one, but I wanted to leave a place for the oh-so-objective posters on this blog that were there to do so....
posted by Mark Moore (Moderator) at Tuesday, May 02, 2006
70 Comments:
There was actually just one debate yesterday with any credibility. The "second debate" was a farce because only one candidate was invited.
Apparently not many were there. Could someone further explain the second "debate" comment mentioned above?
Jim Holt went to a forum hosted by some folks on the wrong side of the tracks in south Little Rock. The other two did not think it worthy of their time I guess.
Actually, Banks' campaign didn't get an invite. How do I know? Because I volunteer there.
This was clearly a set-up by Holt's people to try and make Chuck and Doug look bad.
Too bad it didn't work.
here is an excerpt from the R. Moritz column dealing with what approach to take with the illegals in this country....
First C Banks....
"
"The second thing we need to do is to decide what were going to do with the 11 million people already in this country," said Banks, a Little Rock lawyer.
He said those illegal immigrants with criminal histories should be deported, while those "here because they are hungry and they are trying to pursue the American dream" should be placed on a year's probation and given the opportunity to make themselves legal in this country.
If they fail, then they should be sent home, he said.
Banks criticized legislation that Holt introduced during the 2005 regular session which would have denied state benefits to illegal immigrants and required proof of citizenship to register to vote.
The measure, Senate Bill 206, also would have required state agencies to report suspected cases of people living in the country illegally. The measure failed to get out of committee.
"If Senator Holt's Senate Bill 206 is an example of using the lieutenant governor's office as a bully pulpit, I reject that out of hand. That's not what the public wants," Banks said.
then Jim Holt.....
Holt, who had said earlier in the event that he would use the lieutenant governor's office to champion issues, including tax reform, defended the bill and said he expected similar legislation to be filed during next year's regular session.
Those who cross the border into the United States illegally should not receive any benefits paid for by Arkansas taxpayers, and the state should cut benefits to undocumented immigrants not entitled to them, Holt said.
"With citizenship comes a commitment to this country," Holt said, adding that Banks' idea of giving illegal immigrants a year to gain legal status would cost money and create another level bureaucracy.
"We need to enforce the law," Holt said. "When you enforce the law, that means that a person here illegally already has a criminal record. They are illegal when they cross the border."
then Matayo.....
Matayo, also of Springdale, said the immigration issue could not be solved by the lieutenant governor and that debate should be left to candidates for Congress.
Matayo also labeled as racist postcards and letters he said he has received from people who use the terms "illegal immigrant" and "Hispanic" interchangeably.
"To me that is nothing else but racism," he said, noting that there are 50 million Hispanics in the United States and about 11 million illegal immigrants.
"We cannot let this race or any other race ... let a party be ripped apart by this type of divisive issue," he said.
Monday's forum occurred just a few hours before thousands of immigration supporters rallied in Little Rock, De Queen, Fort Smith and Springdale in protest of restrictive immigration legislation pending before the U.S. House and U.S. Senate. "
Holt was way off his game in LR yesterday.
now what it means....
Banks is seriously out of touch with the grassroots of the party and advocates what amounts to an amnesty that is far more lienient than the one Ted Kennedy just voted for.
He also wants you to pay for government benefits to illegal aliens, since he attacks Holt for daring to actually trying to do something about it.
Holt wants to do everything that can be done on the state level to get the illegals out.
Matayo TODAY took the position that it is a federal issue, there is nothing we can do, and we are a bunch of naughty racists for even talking about it. We can't let it divide our party so let's just tell people that we have not done anything and we are all out of ideas!
In the past Matayo has tried to spin his record so that he WAS helping solve this problem at the state level.
From the Moritz article...
"While the lieutenant governor's position is considered part-time, Holt said he would work full-time to promote tax reform and develop a taxpayer's bill of rights.
Banks criticized Holt's wanting to make the job a full-time position, saying that would lead to a request for an increase in pay and expenses."
Holt voted against his own pay raise three times. Where does Chuck get this stuff?
Thank you for letting all us stupid people know what this means, Mr. Moore. What would we do without you??
HOLT IS OUR SAVIOR AND HAS ALL THE ANSWERS!!
Now here's my analysis:
Matayo was great and actually looked like a Lt. Governor.
Banks was also good and sharp, but looked a little tired.
Holt looked like a deer caught in the headlights as usual. What was he thinking?: Someone get me out of here fast! No wonder he tried to back out of this debate.
"What would we do without you?"
Go bother someone else on their blog?
That is quite an in-depth analysis 10:02. No issues covered, no statements examined, just comments on the personal appearance of the candidates.
"I'm voting for Doug, he's soooooo cute!"
Wickline had a pretty even-handed account here....
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/153493/
Apparantly Banks is arguing that he is worth $40,000 a year part time. Does he really think that serving full time instead of part time will cause an increase in salary or perks? He needs to read amendment 70 of the constitution concerning the job he is applying for (but apparently does not understand).
The Lt. Governor does not get per diem, and their pay is set by the constitution. I doubt Holt, who voted against his own pay raise three times, will launch an effort to change the constitution to increase his own pay.
Chuck Banks gets less impressive everytime he talks issues.
Actually, if the LG position turned into a full time job, it would make for a constitutional amendment to be voted upon by the citizens of Arkansas. Perks would also become more abundant.
Chuck's worth more than $40,000 in my opinion - he can save the election for us in November and bring some civility to this party.
what was the FIRST thing Banks said should be done about this issue? Golly, you left off an important note there didn't ya?
Civility? You mean by calling Holt an opportunist or by incorrectly claiming Holt's legislation would deny people emergency medical care?
Holt would work full time for the same pay the office gives right now- just as he has done in the legislature. Insinuations that this would prompt a change in the constitution are absurd.
Banks can't save his own primary campaign, or answer a routine question of GIF in the debate.
It must be very hard for those who look down on Jim Holt to admit that he is better at his chosen profession than their guy Chuck Banks is, but he is. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Holt would not be as good as Banks at lawyering either. In reality, there was no good reason to expect that Banks could walk in take this thing.
I don't really know about the other two candidates but Jim Holt has been working hard for the middle class for some time now. It's too bad that he doesn't switch to the Constitution Party and get away from the RepubliCONs.
9:47 Too bad you weren't there so that you could tell the WHOLE truth about what Matayo said. If you told the WHOLE truth you wouldn't be able to spin it the way you want. Matayo received the loudest applause of the debate after those comments he made. I wish you had been there to hear the comments from everyone who was there, but then you would've heard how bad your guy did and how awesome Matayo was.
Everybody in Northwest Arkansas should tune into am 1390 in the mornings between 6:00 and 10:00. Open your eyes and see the globalists for the sick psychos that they are. The are totally into genocide and want us reduced to a 3rd world country. Who cares about Matayo, Holt or Banks if they aren't willing to expose the truth. Step outside of your party and search beyond the lies. The first candidate to speak out about this evil plot in our government gets my vote.
9:47
You said Matayo's position is that the congressmen need to establish a policy on immigration not the Lt. Governor.
Matayo wasn't spinning anything, he is a congressmen and has pushed immigration reform in our state, but that can only bandage the problem. Matayo did what he was asked to do and could do, but he was elected within Arkansas. I wish Arkansas could set the immigration policy for the whole country, but it can't.
Real reform can only happen at the federal level.
By civility I mean "no more racism" from the likes of the true holtites.
Ahh, playing the race card. Now I have a clearer idea of your version of "civility".
Matayo says" Yes sir Mr. Governor, Anything you say Mr. Governor, You are always right Mr. Governor. Yes sir Mr. Governor I will go stand in front of the train, if this is what you want. Do we really want someone like Matayo for Lt. Governor? I don't. He will stoop at nothing to get his name in the papers and say anything to get your vote.
And Holt says: I don't have time to go to work, I only have time to vote for taxes, Mexicans are evil, people who don't suppport me are going to hell. Do we really want someone like Holt for Lt. Governor? I don't. He will stoop at nothing to get his name in the papers and say anything to get your vote.
And all the other legislators say: we don't like Holt--he is a do-nothing politician who doesn't support our party and puts up independents to run against fellow Republicans, but we like Matayo and are willing to publically endorse him.
Who would make a better Lt. Gov.?
Two can play this game.
What do you mean, two can play? You've BEEN playing this game for 6 months!
It is very tempting to start deleting coments like 3:08. Of course they only make their own side look bad.
But for some reason 2:12 is fine? It's pretty sad when you are tempted to delete anything you don't agree with. If you don't want someone to respond that way, then don't post the way 2:12 did in the first place. Unbelieveable!
Anonymous said...
That would be quite a road trip for all of Holt's supporter from NW.
9:21 AM
Anonymous said...
Yup. No doubt most won't come. Good thing he's got even more in the LR area.
What happened to all of those "Holt supporters" in the LR area? I think I counted 2 there yesterday. If you're going to talk big, you should find out if it's true or not first. Maybe you just thought that 2 supporters in the LR area is a lot.
2:12 and 3:08
I just don't ever recall Doug Matayo saying NO to the Governor. It is an exaggeration but he runs on the Gov's record.
On the other hand it is grossly unfair and tasteless to accuse Jim Holt of saying the 3:08 stuff.
If you don't recall Doug Matayo saying no to the Governor, then you haven't done your research. I'm not sure why I expected you to though. You wouldn't be able to lie otherwise.
"I will go stand in front of the train, if this is what you want." And you don't find that comment unfair and tasteless? He's a devoted husband and father for goodness sake. His family comes way before work and that comment was offensive.
Well why don't you tell us right here the things Doug has bucked the Governor on. You sure don't mind sharing your "research" on Jim Holt.
Do your own research. I've done mine on Holt, now do yours on Matayo. It's in the record--very easy to find.
ha ha! so easy that you can't provide it.
Of course it can be provided. Have you provided any of the research found on Holt? Of course not. Quit asking everyone else to provide you with the research. Get off your lazy tail and do it yourself. I found the things Matayo said no to all by myself. You should do the same and stop relying on other people to give you your info. That is probably why none of your info is right.
Your logic is up to its usual standards. I find negative things on Doug (actually I just report what others find) and positive things on Jim.
Your job is to find negative things on Jim (which thanks to a rich imagination you do all to often) and POSITIVE things on Doug. So prove to us that he did not trade away his independent voice in exchange for a near meaningless title of "Governor's floor leader". So do your job. Show us where he has bucked the Governor. It is definitely not MY job to find positive things about Doug (and there are some I admit). It would be especially hard for me to find something that does not exist!
Doug voted no on the wage increase
11:21AM "Holt would work full time for the same pay he receives right now in the legislature"? His pay right now is less than $15000, and he made $40000+. How exactly did he do that. I think part of it was collecting rent money even though he wasn't paying any--in other words it was free to him. How do you taxpayers out there feel about that.
Mark Moore--3:08 is right. Holt doesn't show up to vote--it is on his record. He doesn't want unborn Hispanic children to have a decent chance in life, although he want's the taxpayers to pay for midwives who deliver them to be paid. Whonder why? He tells Matayo's friends that Matayo is no longer a christian. Sound like 3:08 got it right.
Hey socialist, are you using the terms "Hispanic" and "illegal alien" interchangably in your 8:19 post? Why then, Doug Matayo thinks you are a racist.
The best way to give ALL kids a decent chance in life is to protect them from socialism. There is no way ANYONE will have a decent chance in life if we don't stop the nanny state. We need more individual responsibility, not more government programs. People should not expect the government to pay for their routine non-emergency medical care, especially if they are not citizens of that government!
The use of midwives instead of hospitals will SAVE the taxpayers money in situations where the law requires the taxpayers to pony up.
8:42 I did't use the term "illegal"in my post, you did. The majority of Hispanics are legal. Making sure unborn babies are healthy is compassionate. Using midwives is not the way to help have healthy babies. There are things that can be done to ensure their health. Iam not talking about vitamins or abortion. You are the one who sounds racist.
As mush as I agree with the last post, homebirth is actually very healthy. There are safeguards in place to ensure that at-risk pregnancies are done at hospitals. Most responsible midwives require strict diets and proper exercise. Babies born at home are usually bigger, and the event is much less stressfull for both mother and baby.
9:53 I am not against home births. There are no safeguards, if a problem exists with the baby that could have been found with tests. I don't believe in abortion, so don't suggest that is all the tests are for. There are some things that can be corrected before birth.
Your ARE equating illegals and hispanics in your 8:19 post because you say "Holt does not want HISPANIC children to have a decent chance in life". Can you show me the bill Holt has written that would deny ANYTHING to ANYBODY on the basis of them being hispanic? Of course not. You are referencing his bill to deny benefits to ILLEGAL ALIENS. YOU are thus the person equating "hispanic" to "illegal".
You libel Holt, make statements that your own candidate (Matayo) would call racist, and take the condescending position of a nanny-state socialist.
"Making sure" they are healthy? How? You never say how the government of the United States or this state is supposed to "make sure" as in "take responsibility for" ensuring that illegal aliens have healthy babies.
So how? By handing out vitamins? What if the parent does not want to pick them up? Do you pay someone to deliver them? Do you pay someone to monitor their urine to make sure they are actually taking them?
The plus of socialism is that it sounds good on the surface. The minus of it is that it DOES NOT WORK. People need to take individual responsibility for their lives- like paying for their own routine medical care and buying their pre-natal vitamins at Wal-Mart.
Mark, you are absolutely clueless. PROVIDING pre-natal care and MAKING someone have it are two completely different things. You can't make someone do anything, but to take away the provision of what every OBGYN in this country says is necessary (pre-natal care) just because you don't like where they come from is heartless. These are babies we're talking about. It doesn't matter if they are white, brown, black or green --They are Babies!
And if you STILL haven't figured out yet that pre-natal care is a lot more than "vitamins", then you aren't doing your research. Or maybe you just don't want to know.
Pre-natal care is much more about the baby than the mother. How can you be against that?
Mark, you are absolutely clueless. PROVIDING pre-natal care and MAKING someone have it are two completely different things. You can't make someone do anything, but to take away the provision of what every OBGYN in this country says is necessary (pre-natal care) just because you don't like where they come from is heartless. These are babies we're talking about. It doesn't matter if they are white, brown, black or green --They are Babies!
And if you STILL haven't figured out yet that pre-natal care is a lot more than "vitamins", then you aren't doing your research. Or maybe you just don't want to know.
Pre-natal care is much more about the baby than the mother. How can you or Holt be against that?
9:53 "As mush as I agree with the last post, homebirth is actually very healthy. There are safeguards in place to ensure that at-risk pregnancies are done at hospitals. Most responsible midwives require strict diets and proper exercise. Babies born at home are usually bigger, and the event is much less stressfull for both mother and baby."
My sister-in-law lost her first baby 2 weeks before her due date because of using a mid-wife. This was a well know, highly recommended mid-wife in Dallas. The midwife has my sister-in-law take all kinds of "supplements" that resulted in the death of her baby boy. I also have 5 other friends who had babies at home and now their children have all sorts of problems that could've been resolved if they had received proper prenatal care through a Doctor. One of these children is only expected to live until the age of 21. The cons of having a child at home are way too great to risk. And why in the world would a baby be bigger just because they used a midwife? That is dumb. Bigger babies usually require c-sections if you haven't heard. I wouldn't want to be laboring at home and then find out I need a c-section. I'd rather be surrounded by people that can actually do one if needed.
And anyone that thinks that prenatal care is only about taking vitamins obviously has never had a child or shouldn't ever have a child. There is so much more too it than that. It's like taking parenting or marital advice from someone who has never been married or doesn't have any chidren. Not a good idea.
The point, which you insist on missing, is that it is not the taxpayers job to insure everyone, including non-citizens, do all the things that you think are needed for good pre-natal care. The vitamins were given as an example something that Arkansas taxpayers should not have to provide to illegal aliens, not as a complete list of all pre-natal concerns.
As for your going off on the mid-wives, I like to use doctors myself, but the fact is doctors kill lots of people too.
"Mark, you are absolutely clueless. PROVIDING pre-natal care and MAKING someone have it are two completely different things."
And DENYING someone pre-natal care is not the same thing as NOT WANTING TO PAY FOR IT, which I can't seem to make you understand.
Suppose you want to buy a care. You ask me to pay for it and I say "No". Am I denying you a car? No one is denying anyone pre-natal care- only access to other people's money to pay for it. And that only applies to routine, non-emergency pre-natal care. The emergency and delivery-related pre-natal care is still given to the illegal alien using OPM.
40 out of 50 states don't even have such a program for their own citizens. Try to rise above the emotion and think rationally. There are hundreds of thousands of Americans born every week without a government prenatal-care program. The program is not needed- personal responsibility is. The program is not about babies. It is about bueracrats and health care providers getting a big slice of OPM using children as an excuse.
Democrats who are pro-abortion want to allow people to rip arms and heads and legs off of babies. Those are the bad guys. I want to make it illegal to rip the arms and heads and legs off of babies. I am the good guy.
I also want those babies to live in freedom when they grow up. This program is socialized medicine, which has proven to be second rate medicine the world over. It sounds good, but it does not work. We don't disagree about the need for prenatal care, just the best way to provide it. You say a big expensive government program, I say individual responsibility.
Are illegals provided pre-natal care now?
YES. Yes they are.
No doubt more than they need if some medical clinic can send the bill to the government for it. How about ultrasounds whether needed or not, just because we can bill it to you as "pre-natal care". Shut up and pay up. It is "for the children".
As far as I know the emergency room is the only place where anyone is provided anything for free, if they cannot pay. Moore and Holt don't believe anyone needs pre-natal care. At home deliveries are not as safe as they would have people believe. I would like to see either one of them give birth themselves. One of my daughters was too small to deliver and after many hours in labor she had to have a c-section. Another daughter also needed a c-section when she could not deliver a large baby. Larger babies are not the result of midwives care.
Mark Moore you are the most ignorant man I have ever seen. I feel sorry for whoever has your children. Ultrasounds are safeguards, you don't know if you need one until you have one. That is the way problems are found. I don't believe in using them to decide about having an abortion so don't go that route with me.
Mark Moore, I am not equating Hispanics to illegals. If they [Hispanics or illegals] are poor and need help with prenatal care, thrn it needs to be done. To make sure, it may take only a few tests. Sometime surgery on the unborn is needed. No one but God can ensure a healthy baby.
I should have said legal or illegal.
We can't give illegals prenatal care, but we will provide those same babies with free daycare when they are 3. Makes a lot of sense Mark.
"Mark Moore you are the most ignorant man I have ever seen. I feel sorry for whoever has your children."
I certainly have a hard time matching the intellectual quality of your arguments.
Hey, if they think they should have an ultrasound then no one is stoping them, but it needs to be on their dime not mine.
"If they [Hispanics or illegals] are poor and need help with prenatal care, thrn it needs to be done. To make sure, it may take only a few tests."
If the taxpayers are picking up the tab then they will get every test the lab offers. Is it not enough that the hospital will eat the $5,000 tab for delivery of the baby (or pass the costs on to you)?
This is why Rush Limbaugh says that liberalism is the most gutless choice you can make. All you have to do is say "YES" to everything. The government should give everything to everybody, even people from across the globe who come here illegally.
We are up to our eyeballs in debt right now, because theiving politicians have robbed us blind- or maybe we chose not to see. Our children are facing a bleak financial future because of profligate government spending. The politicians don't have the guts to tell you the truth- that we have to start telling people NO. We have to stop spending money. Thank God I am not a politician. I can go ahead and just tell you the truth. WE CAN'T AFFORD THE NANNY STATE, fiscally or morally.
If you want to provide routine prenatal care to an illegal alien go ahead and do it, but it is not the responsibility of the government or the taxpayers of this state to do that, nor can we afford to keep saying YES to everything.
"Moore and Holt don't believe anyone needs pre-natal care. .... I would like to see either one of them give birth themselves."
As I have mentioned, it would be difficult for me to match the intellectual quality of your arguments.
You are forgetting, whether you agree with it or not, that these babies will be citizens when they are born. If they are born with birth defects, it will cost the tax payers 100x more than what is paid for prenatal care. Prenatal care is not for the mom, it is for the baby. Deny illegals every government program out there, including pre-k, but we cannot turn our backs on babies that will be citizens the second they are born.
That's a myth that quietly trumps reality because of the commonplace "America is responsible for the entire world" mentality. There is no law granting citizenship to criminal invaders who drop their newborns on foreign (American) soil.
Just to make sure, let's deport them before they give birth.
I don't agree with your numbers. The cost of the program will skyrocket and many birth defects can't be undone by prenatal care. Many others would have gotten their own pre-natal care (of higher quality) if the government did not provide it for "free". I do not accept your claim that it will be 100X cheaper to give them prenatal care.
I am not "turning my back" on them. I just don't want the government to pay for routine medical care. I am against socialized medicine.
I am not sure I support this government program even for our own citizens. 40 out of 50 states don't have it, and they seem to be as healthy as we are. The answer is always personal responsibility, not another program.
All those who are "born in the U.S. and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" are citizens. It is an open question as to whether that last phrase mandates "anchor babies". There is much evidence that the last phrase was put in so as to exclude anchor babies from becoming citizens.
"As for your going off on the mid-wives, I like to use doctors myself, but the fact is doctors kill lots of people too."
I know 6 people who have children with disabilities because of using a mid-wife and I don't know anyone who has a child with disabilities because of a doctor. The odds are against the mid-wife. Yes, doctors can mess up and someone can die because of a doctor. Are you willing to let your neighbor do your next surgery just because he's watched a doctor do a surgery before? Midwives are not trained to handle an emergency. They are trained to handle a somewhat perfect labor. Yes, women used to deliver babies all the time with only midwives, but women died in childbirth all the time too.
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