Eight Minute Cartoon Banned by Mormon Church
On the day when Mormon Stake President (about like a Bishop in the Catholic Church) Mitt Romney waxed eloquent with his speech on religious tolerance, we offer you an eight minute cartoon that will show you what exactly they are insisting you should be tolerating....
posted by Mark Moore (Moderator) at Thursday, December 06, 2007
26 Comments:
High entertainment value...
Don't you believe in a "Space god from starbase Kalob"? The Mormon god is the same as the Christian God isn't he?
/sarc
Ron Paul SPAM
This from ARS Technica, "In a report published this week by security firm SecureWorks, researchers reveal that the recent flurry of Ron Paul spam originated from a Reactor botnet controlled by a commercial spammer through a colocation facility in the U.S.
This explains why support in the polls don't match the online blog support.
That's right Rick. I'm actually just a commercial bot.
So do you believe the story Mark?
I don't know if it is true or not. If it is true, there is no way the Paul campaign is behind it. There are a lot of pro-Paul people that will do things on their own, though it would not surprise me if an ANTI-Paul group did this in an effort to discredit or anger people on Ron Paul. Many people have gone to great lengths to discredit Paul, including the DOT head who lied like a rug this week on the NAFTA superhighway.
As far as one tiny group of renegades or political enemies spamming being the explanation for the difference between Paul's on and offline support, no I don't believe that. The guy has raised 11 million dollars online this quarter. That's not bots Rick, the support is real. 43,000 meet-up groups are not bots. I went to one Wednesday. Real people.
The truth is that the internet users are the most informed people in the world. They are a leading indicator because they already know what the general population will soon know. Ron Paul is the only candidate besides Huckabee who is gaining in the polls. He is not in a boom like Huck because he is not being pumped up by the corporate media. It is slower growth, but on a firmer foundation. We will see.
Ron Paul is the only candidate besides Huckabee who is gaining in the polls.
Mitt's magic underwear not getting the job done?
Mark, you are a religious bigot. If I created a cartoon about how the God of the New Testament sent bears to maul one of his prophets and had his son turn water into wine, would you find the subject matter equally hilarious?
Call me what you will. I assert my right to use logic, reason, and historical fact to evaluate the claims of various religions. I assert my right to respect or disrespect one above or below another based on what logic, reason, and historical fact tell me about them. I am not obligated by you or anyone else to agree that "all religious are equally worthy of respect". They're not.
If I have to choose between losing my intellectual freedom or risk being called a bigot then I choose freedom. If my choice is to be a bigot or a brain-dead idiot I will wear the "religious bigot" badge with honor. Not all religious claims are equally true, and it is idiocy to pretend that they are.
There is nothing funny about people being mauled by bears and turning water into wine is only mildly amusing. The claims of the Mormon faith- and I notice that you do nothing to address the FACTUAL BASIS of the claims or history made by the cartoon, don't merit the same amount of seriousness or respect as orthodox Christianity, IMO.
Mormonism is actually further from Christianity than Islam in its philosophical underpinnings. It goes right to the first temptation "you shall be like God". Christianity, and even Islam in its own warped way, says "serve God", the Mormon creed is "you can be God".
I guess being God is a lot more appealing than serving Him to some types. As for me, I know I'm not qualified for the job.
You have missed the point. Mormonism involves accepting incredible claims on the basis of faith. Your cartoon is ridiculing the incredible claims. I just think it is hilarious that you have somehow forgotten that you accept, on faith, equally incredible claims.
In short, it's not just that you're a bigot. You're also a hypocrite. All the red herrings that you are frantically throwing into the discussion have nothing to do with this.
No, of course I don't evaluate the claims of the cartoon. I don't evaluate your suggestions about how some politician's prayer actually caused a huge rainfall. Because you are so theologically unsophisticated, you do not understand the impiety of that action, but instead praise it. It's not that you have to choose between being a bigot or a brain-dead idiot. You have more than proven that you are amply qualified for both.
What incredible claims do I accept with as little evidence as Mormons gold tablet evidence? What claim of orthodox Christianity is so little supported as that of Smith and his translations of ancient Egyptian documents in "The Pearl of Great Price".
I maintain that there is more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the claim that we can all be Gods.
The fact that you equate orthodox faith claims (such as mine)with the absurd claims of Mormonism, and I suppose those for the Flying Spaggetti Monster as well, makes you the bigot. Thinking all people of faith believe in equal absurdities is akin to believing that all blacks are lazy or all Mexicans steal. This is the bigotry which your post embraces.
My faith claims are better than Joseph Smith's because the evidence for them is better, not simply the result of bigotry.
As for who the idiot is, we may get a chance to find out on the other side of life's curtain. If you are posting as a religious skeptic, I would say that at least of us at least has a chance.
If OTHO you are posting as a member of the liberal clergy that supports tolerance over fidelity to God's truth, then it makes you no less a bigot than if you were an atheist, but at least the atheist would be innocent of hypocrisy. So which is it? Where are you coming from?
You have once again proved that you are both a bigot and an idiot. I do not think that all people of faith believe in equal absurdities, I did not say that all people of faith believe in equal absurdities, and nobody but an idiot could infer any such beliefs from anything I wrote. Your attempt to label me as a bigot therefore fails. As for your bigotry, it grows more and more obvious. There will be no need for you to confess it any further.
"I do not think that all people of faith believe in equal absurdities, I did not say that all people of faith believe in equal absurdities, and nobody but an idiot could infer any such beliefs from anything I wrote"
I infer it from this for one...
"I just think it is hilarious that you have somehow forgotten that you accept, on faith, equally incredible claims."
In the context of God coming from the start system Kolob and the rest of Mormonism, an "incredible" claim is basically a synonym for an "absurd" one. And I notice that you never addressed my core point, that the claims for my faith are more rational than those of the Mormons. Nor did you answer my query as to where you are coming from.
In short, your answer is non-responsive. Unless you can do better I will consider this check-mate.
What you have done is the logical equivalent of discovering two shoes which are size 8 and then inferring that all other shoes in the universe are also size 8.
Only a bigoted moron would consider this to be a logical argument. Of course, you qualify.
I'm sure you have plenty of evidence that a politician who prays for rain will thereby cause it. I'm also sure that none of this evidence will be remotely convincing to a reasonably intelligent or educated person.
Of course I never addressed your suddenly invented red herring, which you term your whole point, about how your irrational beliefs are so much better than those of the Mormons. That is because you never actually made the argument for it and only relied on bald assertions. I have no interest in your substance-free bald assertions.
You are welcome to consider anything you want checkmate. I am sure there are plenty of people in insane asylums who believe they are chess grandmasters.
Mr. Moore,
It is time to pack up shop, stop busying yourself here with this stuff. Go love your wife, raise your children in as much of a Christian manner as is possible.
When a respectable Christian magazine like World publishes that Mormons are classified as Christian without comment, then the battle lines are not here in the public arena. The battle is in our churches.
Look at this: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CANDIDATES_RELIGION_GLANCE?SITE=NCAGW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
You are quite right about the battle lines in our churches. There are battle lines in the churches, in government, and in each of our own hearts.
The churches are more fundamental than the government. The thing is, what am I called to do? Where are my gifts if any? Do I start an online church? If not then what? How? The clergy is becoming an isolated professional, and they are skilled at keeping it that way.
I don't deny the need. I wish someone else would do that job. I would help them. But who, what, and how?
It's ironic that Mormonism was founded on the premise that all 'other' Christian sects were corrupt and practicing heresy. Yet nowadays, Mormons get very angry when they are classified apart from Christian sects.
One thing is sure: either they are genuine Christians, OR the traditional, orthodox, denominations are the true followers of Christ. Mitt and co-cultists would have you believe that it's not an either/or situation, but in their own temples and holy books, they themselves insist that it is.
Maybe Mark "The Bigot" Moore thinks that he has succeeded in checkmate. To the rest of the world, it looks like a forfeit.
Mark, you owe all the non-bigots an apology for your hateful treatment of Mormonism.
Maybe if you keep calling Mark names, we'll eventually believe your line of reasoning.
We don't need no steen'kin Massachusetts Mitt hacks on AW.
This is a load of Bull Crap. If the LDS church taught this crap then why would they ban the cartoon? Duh.
I thought I'd comment to remark that this cartoon is far from accurate. It was created by an anti-Mormon group in the early 80s and its falsehoods have been debunked time and time again.
For example, in March 1984, the Board of the National Conference of Christians and Jews repudiated the film, saying "The film does not—in our opinion—fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon history, or Mormon belief."
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